Transcript: Leading Yourself from Addiction to Sobriety (EP74)

 

Intro (with music): Welcome to The Culture of Things podcast with Brendan Rogers. This is a podcast where we talk all things, culture, leadership and teamwork across business and sport.

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Brendan: Hello and welcome to The Culture of Things podcast. I'm your host, Brendan Rogers, and this is episode 74. Today, I am speaking with Ethan Mulholland in the flesh. How are you, buddy?

Ethan: Good, mate. How are you doing? 

Brendan: Very well. Thanks for coming into the studio, buddy. I'm going to read a little bit about your background and then we'll have a little bit of a chat. 

Ethan is a 29-year-old Gurindji man from Western Sydney. He's in the process of moving to Canberra to work with the Indigenous Marathon Foundation with Robert de Castella as the Community Impact Manager. His new role will focus on delivering community programs across Australia through running. He spent the last three and a half years working with The Glen Rehabilitation Center, and prior to being an employee at the Glen, Ethan was a client. 

He's now four years clean and sober and hoping to lead by example and inspire others in making healthier lifestyle choices. Today we want to focus on Ethan's journey of leading himself from addiction to sobriety. Ethan, official welcome to The Culture of Things podcast. 

Ethan: Thank you very much. Good to be here in the flesh. I heard your podcast, but now that I'm here in the flesh, I feel very special. 

Brendan: Mate, you're supposed to tell me you've listened and watched every single episode, all 73 episodes before this one. 

Ethan: I'm an honest man. This is the most honest I've ever got. 

Brendan: This is what we love here. Genuine conversations, that's what it's all about. 

Ethan: Yeah, that's it. 

Brendan: We're going to get in the whole leading yourself from addiction to sobriety and stuff, but where are you off to in Australia after this? 

Ethan: This is the last thing I'll do on the coast and then I'm out. I'm off the coast, but I'll be back. I'm going to mom and dad's to stay for a few days, catch up with family before I head off to Ngunnawal Country in Canberra to go work with [...] and then IMF. This is the last thing I'll be doing on the coast. 

Brendan: We're on it, mate. 

Ethan: So am I.

Brendan: Beautiful, mate. Let's unpack a bit of your early history, pre-alcohol I suppose. You grew up in Western Sydney, as you said. Tell us a bit about I guess the early teenage time of growing up in Western Sydney, what was that like for you?

Ethan: I suppose just before coming here, my teenage life was great, great upbringing, and I played a lot of sports. I was a massive rugby league fan. I started playing rugby league when I was four years old and I'm not that big or anything. I'm probably where my knees are now. Four years old playing—

Brendan: Playing [...] grasshopper. 

Ethan: I couldn't find the jerseys that are small enough. My jersey was always up to my wrist. I love rugby league, am a massive Rabbitohs fan, and I idolize Darren Trindall. Trying to dummy and do my little chip over tops always. 

Then about nine years old, I wasn't in a sport that much. I was looking for something else to do and my mom and dad said what about cricket? I said okay, well, I'll try that out. First year I got selected to play for Penrith. Apparently, I was pretty good at cricket. Two years later, Captain of Penrith and played alongside Pat Cummins, which is now an Australian Captain. Cricket wasn't as fun because he was bowling 120Ks and more like a 10-year-old and I was an open bat so I was pretty scared. I got a lot of bruises from him. 

Brendan: That's so crazy. 

Ethan: Yeah, 100%. Cricket and football were my thing, rugby league. I was trying out for New South Wales and emerging blues and I tried out for them. I quit rugby league when cricket happened because I've taken it a bit more seriously because I'm playing indoor cricket, outdoor when I was representing Penrith. I gave up [...] for a couple of years, but I decided I want to go back to rugby league because I hit high school. 

At 13, 14 years old and all my mates are playing rugby league. I wanted to be the cool kid so I played rugby league and the club I was playing for was red and green. I was like, well, there you go. Snapped my arm in the trial match so I went back and obviously went pretty good at [...]. Then I remember the ball bounced around like a little jackrabbit and then on the fence my arm snapped in half. I was like oh, and then I was in a cast for about four to six months. After that, I don't remember going back to any sport. 

I suppose that was about year 8, year 9 so I'm about 14, 15 years old, and started partying on the weekends. I always looked up to older kids and they were drinking and doing their parties and had a party at someone else's house. That became my weekend sport if you will, and that was what I was up to. 

Every weekend, from that moment on, when I started drinking, it disconnected me from myself. From who I really was, this person that's sporty, I wouldn't say I was good in school. I was smart, but I just couldn't pay attention. I was more into the hands-on sport and stuff like that. At that age, I started drinking. Around Western Sydney, this was the normal thing to do and everyone else is doing it so I had that sense of belonging where I belong with this group, having fun, and I didn't realize how much it was disconnecting from myself back at that age. 

When I look back on it now it makes sense how it all led to it. Then about 16 or 17, the drugs got involved, the party drugs, every now and then. You got ecstasy and all that sort of stuff. That was a part of my life. Fast forward to about 18, I was always on and off so I'd have a rough few months on drinking and using drugs and then I'll stop myself, but it was just always like a revolving door of no, no, I can stop whenever I want, but didn't know how too. It was more like I dealt with every emotion through alcohol if you will.

Growing up in Western Sydney, I suppose, I didn't know there was much help out there until a bit later with the Glen and all that. I didn't realize there was that help out there so I wasn't aware of it and always thought I could do stuff on my own. I'll be alright. Mom and dad always had the answers for me, but maybe I just never listened and it's hard to find out for myself. 

A bit of early teens at Western Sydney growing up, it's just a bit of a culture out there. Every other situation and that's what our homeland's culture is. I don't blame anyone else around there because I was a part of it. I was the one in that. It was all my doing because I had a choice at that age and that's the path I chose to go.

Brendan: You said earlier looking back you can see sort of where things may have snowballed. Can you unpack that a bit? What were some of those things that looking back now you think were triggers and started to move you on a path that you're not on now, but it took you down that path for a while?

Ethan: I realized that I drank differently from a lot of people. I've always wanted to be the biggest drinker in the group and I think I've got that title a few times and just the stresses of life. From 13, 14 years old, I've been drinking every weekend, then what comes with that is hangovers, and then you're not really yourself the next day or the next two days if you drink pretty hard. 

That escalated with problems so we've been unmanageable. Around that age, I started work and I wouldn't turn up all the time. I'll feel like crap because I'm not living up to my full potential. The best way I know to get over what's going on in my head about feeling crap of I didn't go to work is to drink again. That's how I dealt with that.

Party like everything's happy, drink, and that's just where it took me because it led up to what I thought was just going to be fun every weekend. I'm still young, I'm supposed to be doing this, and it led to carrying on for the next 10–12 years. I just never knew how to shake it because that became me. My identity is drinking and then eventually just getting on drugs. That's how I dealt with everything. Ignoring all the head noise I was going through.

Brendan: You said earlier too, I guess there was some influence there, that you enjoyed hanging around older people, but what was that enjoyment about? Why was that so for you?

Ethan: I got an older sister and I used to hang out with her friends and all the guys are a couple of years older, so I just thought what they were doing was fun compared to people in my own age bracket. I was hanging out with my older cousin too so I've always had that older influence and always feel like I'm matured a bit older for my age. I was getting into clubs at 16. 

I always felt like I had to be a bit older and I had just already grown up a bit too quick, I suppose. I suppose growing up out there and I just felt like—because I was so disconnected from myself when I started drinking, I realized that's who I want to be with hanging out with these guys because I thought it was fun. It was what I thought where I'll be.

Brendan: I want to go back to something. You broke your arm and sport was off the cards for a while and you're right into your rugby league and your cricket, not the real football, just rugby league.

Ethan: Exactly. I think I've corrected it before because I know people will say football, I'm like, oh, rugby league.

Brendan: It's not the real football, it's just rugby league. Rugby league and cricket. What I'd like to understand and help our listeners understand in this journey of the damage to the arm is a pretty major damage by the sounds of it. Looking back again, was that the single biggest thing that broke your dream, so to speak? You're on this path, enjoying your sport, then a serious injury, and then you said you live down this. Was that the main thing or was there something else around that point that took you down there?

Ethan: I suppose that was the start of it, but I think my life was always going to go down that way either way. 

Brendan: Why do you say that? 

Ethan: I think just because of the culture out of Western Sydney of what seems like the normal culture of being around. I'm a product of my environment. If I surround myself with people who are doing that, that's what I'd be doing. I didn't surround myself around people that were just not going out on weekends, who were doing their sport, taking the sport seriously, going to their training.

I hung around the people which I suppose was the easier option of what I thought was just going out, hanging out with them, and disconnecting with myself because as soon as I started drinking, I just felt this is it, this is the life I want. This is great. That's just the buzz that I got. It gets rid of anxiety. I'm out there. I'm having fun. I'm loud and proud. The next day talking about what we got up to and good or bad things. 

That's what I thought fun was and I think just the alcohol itself, at that moment, I wouldn't say that's the reason for my downfall, but I think that's the moment I remember when I started falling out of love of sport because I wasn't able to do anything for four months. 

Sitting there for four months and I'm really active, all ball sports, I'm running, everything, I'm just running around mad. I sat there for four months and then I had no resilience, I suppose back then, to ever bounce back from an injury and then to get back in. I just thought, no, that's too late now. I won't make [...] again, all that self-doubt too. Self-doubt and just not much awareness. 

Brendan: Tell us a bit about what those dark roads look like. You're sort of 13, 14, you're on a road leading down a certain way, and it gets darker and darker the further away. What does a dark road look like in that time of the old Ethan Mulholland?

Ethan: Around the teens where I think it was all fun and games. I always said to myself, I think I was 16 or 17 and I said no, I'll wait till I'm 18 and I'll get my stuff together and I'll get it all together. Eighteen's a good age. I always thought that it's too young, too young. From 18–25, life went like that real quick, especially when you're drinking and using drugs, life goes so quick. 

Around 19, in and out of jobs. I knew I had potential to do some or to do stuff in life, but I just had this drug and alcohol addiction that I just couldn't shake because, for one, I didn't ask anyone for help. I was like that. I never asked anyone for help. I suppose from 15–16, the longest I've gone without drinking a big session is probably 5 weeks to 25 years, so that's 10 years. 

I remember one time I was five weeks off the drug, everything and I felt amazing and I felt great. The easy thing is stopping after a big night. It's easy for me to stop, but the hardest thing is staying stopped. It isn't just about stopping. There's a lot more to it. Anyone can stop but then you can mentally damage yourself if you just have no tools on how to deal with certain emotions, deal with wanting to drink again, that craving, or what's ruining you. You're thinking, I need a drink. 

Leading down that path, about 19 and 20, it's a bit blurry from 20–25, to be honest. The heavier drugs got involved around 20–25. When you're down that road because my mom, dad, my sisters, and my brother are a great family. I was too ashamed to tell anyone I had a problem. It was that bad. Some people saw it, some people didn't, but it gets darker and darker because I'm on my own where there are fears. There are heaps of people out there willing to help, but I just never put my hand up for years, years, years, and it gets darker and darker. 

Then you think, what are my options? In my options, I had a fear of being alive. I used to enjoy sleeping because what I was dreaming was better than reality so I'll just always try to sleep, sleep, sleep because then I'll wake up and be like I'm still here. I've got to deal with this stuff. I'm getting nowhere in life. I'm still living with mom and dad. 

When I was 13, I had dreams to be here. I'm 25 years old. I'm like, what am I doing? I suppose I had a quarter-life crisis. I always say it's like a quarter-life crisis at 25. It just hit me and it got dark. It got to a point where I either was going to kill myself or ask for help. Obviously, I asked for help and my life changed from that. Those three words, I just said I need help. 

I was actually going to tell my sister. I remember the day. It was January 8, 2018, and it was a Monday at about 8:00 AM, I still remember it. I was pacing up and down the hallway and I was going to tell my sister, but she went out the backyard then I was like, no, no, I'll be alright. Then my mom went into her room and I just went in there just said I need help and broke down. I always get emotional talking about it of course. Emotional because I'm just so happy that I did that.

I broke down and I was just like I need help. I couldn't even say the words, it was all I need help. Then I went off to the hospital, got all those checkups and stuff, and then met a guy at a place called [...], which is a drug and alcohol counseling service. I met a fellow named David there and he was one who gave me the idea about the Glen. 

I was going into that meeting for a counseling session with him and then my mom was like come on, we'll go. I'm like, no, no, I'm good now. She goes get your ass up, we're going. I went there and then my life changed forever. Since asking for help, it just changed from there. Dave made me feel comfortable about wanting to go to rehab to start with because my interpretation of the rehab was straight jackets, movies, and just walking around like that, but that's where my life got to. I was willing to go to a place like that. I was just like I needed help. This is so hard for years and years of struggling, that's what I had to do is just ask for help. 

Brendan: I need help. Very powerful words and particularly for leaders. I need help. We are going to go through a bit about the Glen and the rest of the journey. You mentioned you were off the grog for five weeks, and drugs and alcohol for five weeks. What was it at that time that gave you the impetus to actually try and be off it for five weeks? Do you remember?

Ethan: Yeah, because I couldn't hold a job. I couldn't hold a job. At that time, the relationship I was in wasn't going too well. I thought I needed to sort that out and I always knew in the back of my mind that it was the alcohol for me. I always knew that there was a problem, and I knew if I can get rid of that, things will get at least better because there's always a cause of things or it's just a way because I'm not myself when I'm drunk. If I'm drunk most of the week, I'm just not me. 

At the time, what motivated me I suppose was the relationship I was in, keeping a job, feeling like absolute crap because I want to go and work but I just physically, mentally, and spiritually cannot get up and just turn my phone off, ignoring everyone. The shame and guilt that comes with that. I knew if I just got off the alcohol, and then I was going to work every day, I was killing it. 

I've always known my own potential, but that sort of motivated me because the moment I did ask for help, I suppose I was on a long bender. but it wasn't the worst drinking or drugs session I've ever had that led into it. I probably had a couple of drinks the day before. I wasn't even drunk when I asked for help. I was completely sober.

Brendan: You were yourself? 

Ethan: I was myself, exactly. It was like Ethan, save me right now. Go tell your mom. Because that little devil on your shoulder—the alcohol—is like no, no, you're all right, you're all right, keep drinking, keep drinking. That little angel there had something left in him, he was probably asleep, and was probably like go and go do it now.

Those five weeks gave me hope for the long run and I always remember those five weeks. Then five weeks out, I think it was around this time because I remember it was Easter and I got a gift of beer for Easter. That one drink, it was like, oh, all of a sudden I said, six-pack, it's Easter, forgetting all the stuff that just happened over the last years. That six-pack looked so delicious. I had one, bang six, and then it's on. Then I'm back to knocking on wood.

Brendan: Someone who probably didn't know your story, I take it? 

Ethan: I suppose so, yeah. Wouldn't know so much about what I was going through, no way. No one knew I was a bit sober. No one ever understood so I was never like you weren't there for me. It was more like I knew what was going on, but I never really communicated it or showed it because I was just always hiding it as well, trying to put on a brave face in front of people. 

Brendan: Again, you said earlier how you were hiding things, but your family knows that something's not quite right. What was your reflection on I guess the awareness of what was happening around you from a family perspective whilst you were, to be fair, damaging yourself and your family?

Ethan: I was spending a lot of time not going home at all. I don't see them or turn up to certain events. It’s obvious when there's a little birthday party or christening, Ethan's not there. It's an obvious thing. My family, my pop, and my nana always had a thing for knowing that I'll be right. My pop would tell us his story that when I was just to be born, he had a dream about an elder smoking in his dream and saying leave that boy alone. He'll be okay. 

My pop's not even indigenous, but it scared the hell out of him because he's like I just got smoke in this dream. I was a young kid back then and no one knew where I was going to end up, but he always told me you'll be right. I know. I got told to let you do your life and come out on the other end good. 

He always told me that story and he's someone who is a bit of a skeptic or whatnot, but this is one thing he always says to me before. The family all knew it, then when I finally asked for help, it was sort of like, yeah, good. That led me to the wonderful place of the Glen Rehab.

Brendan: I think people would want to know, and certainly I want to know as well, is what did you feel you didn't have in those five weeks? I understand that action of, okay, here's a six-pack. What, again, in hindsight a beautiful thing, on reflection that you didn't have around you that you needed to make a different decision even when the six-pack was in front of you.

Ethan: A hundred percent, people that are in recovery as well. I didn't have people that have been in that position before. I had no one to call up and say, look, I've got a six-pack in front of me. I don't want to drink it, but it's there. I didn't have, I suppose, the tools of recovery of where it's going to lead me? I sort of knew where it was leading me but it was just subconsciously, bang, open crack. 

I didn't have the people, the connection of others. I didn't have someone like a mentor. I didn't have a mentor or anyone to tell me to say, hey, look, you're sober for four to five weeks, make sure that when Easter comes, you call me if there's anything like that. These days, I've got people around me. I hear stories of others that have the same story as me that I can relate to. There's my connection and there's my mob of people that I need around me. 

I got all these tools, obviously, working in rehab for one as well, learning about people's stories, learning about myself, my triggers, which is like my worst fear was not thinking that I'll be able to have fun without drinking because every Friday night was a party. 

Then the first few Fridays in rehab were really hard because it's Friday night, my body clock is like where's the alcohol? What are you doing? Where's the party at? But then two weeks later, I forgot what day it was, and I was going really well enough. Then I realize I'm going really well when I'm not focused on what day it is. Back to what I did not have, I suppose the tools to know and some people around me that have been there before. That's probably what I didn't have back then.

Brendan: What took you to that famous decision on the 8th of January 2018 to say I need help?

Ethan: I think I've realized I couldn't do it on my own anymore. I was suicidal. I had Christmas in 2017 and felt like absolute crap because I'm in no position to get in on presents. I'm probably 10 kilos on what you see now. I spent that time drinking with mates ignoring my family because I was too ashamed to go there. New Year's day, a massive bender. 

I suppose from January 1st, I was just drinking, cocaine, and then I just got to the point where I had a fear of being alive. I was like, I want something to take me out. I was always too scared to go and do it. I was just driving around running the mark and just hoping something will take me out because I can't do it. Then I woke up on January 8 having a fear of dying. I went from a fear of being alive like I don't want to be here, then that sleep in the laundry room in mom and dad's house, waking up, and then that little angel saying you're not going to die. Let's go.

Brendan: Tell us a bit more about that, I guess, the next 48, 72 hours from that day, I need help.

Ethan: For sure. Straight to the doctor's, the doctor sent me straight to the mental health at [...] at Penrith. Me being me, because I told someone I felt great, and there's a huge weight that just came off my shoulders. I was like I'm all good. Because I'm on a high, I'm speaking to the nurses or the doctors. I'm speaking to them like I'm all good now, which I felt I was good at the time. I was just saying, yeah, now it's all good. 

I was waiting there and then they interviewed me. I was like, I'm good. I think I was not bothered to do more work about it. I told someone I needed help and I thought, yeah, then the lady speaking to me—

Brendan: [...]

Ethan: From that moment on, I was completely off the grog, nothing. I just said, no, it's done. That five weeks, I was off at being great, and then got to a week of me being sober. I was just doing nothing with my life because I didn't want to go back to doing what I was doing for work because I suppose the culture of that too was alcohol and drugs everywhere. I couldn't put myself there. I just had no purpose in life either.

It's fair enough that I stopped and I need help, cool, but what do I do now? Do I just sit at home and just bum? It's only a matter of time before I decided drinking is the best idea as well. The next 48, 72 hours was getting those therapy sessions and then speaking to someone at [...] which is David which led me there about a week later. I'm glad mom and my old man got me into it because that was the next step for me to get more help.

Without that, that would have been pretty hard. I'm living in the right direction, which, unfortunately, a lot of people don't have that support around them either. I hope this can reach out to people to find the right people. If someone's watching this as well that they realize there is help out there, a lot of help. You just got to reach out.

Brendan: From there being in the hospital and [...] hospital and the mental health unit there, what's the next process and when does the Glen come in for you?

Ethan: Yes. Three weeks later I'm at the Glen, just like that. I applied for the Glen. When he was explaining to me, I was like, I don't want to go to rehab for 12 weeks. I said12 weeks is a long time. I had all this fear of what I'm going to miss out on. I just [...] someone, you idiot, who cares if there's a public holiday coming up? You got no money anyway. What are you doing? 

That's the moment I had to settle everything on the table. Who cares whose birthday is coming up, whose birthday, or Christmas, or I'm going to be there for that. I need to save myself here because I won't make my next birthday if I don't get this right.

Brendan: So you really had to make a decision to focus on yourself?

Ethan: Yeah, that self-awareness it's just like the conversations I have with myself have completely changed, I'm asking for help. Then just looking into the Glen as well, on the website. I opened the website and I was like, this is perfect culturally.

They do dancing and they do the art. This is what I need in my life to go somewhere where I'm just taught things and all the stuff that I ignored from my parents years ago. How to apply for a job and just the small things in life that I ignored because my mates were doing that.

It led to the Glen on the 24th of January. That was on a Wednesday, I'm pretty sure. I remember that very clearly. I have a bad short-term memory, but I can remember it was 20 degrees Celsius. No, I don't remember.

Brendan: Significant moments in your life, mate. You probably should remember these days.

Ethan: And then we got the bus out. When David was telling me about the Glen, the guys are all turning up the road, I'm like, I'm not going to go up the road. I'm from here, I'm not going to. But up the road in his language was an hour and a half.

I got on the bus. We've never [...] that was going near that day and absolutely crap myself. I'm about to go into a facility, a rehab. On the bus, I was like, my life really got here. I'm going to rehab because of the stigma attached to it. I felt embarrassed, but also proud at the same time.

I didn't care what anyone thought. I need help. I'll be more embarrassed if I don't go and do this. The bus trip up. I was met by one of the counselors, Maddie from the south coast. It was just so welcoming and warming. The first few hours, it was amazing,

Brendan: What was it about?

Ethan: The people that were there, the workers, and the clients that were there at the time because we're all going through the same thing. They showed me around. They took me on a tour. They go, mate, you're in the right place.

It's like, what's your poison? What are you? The grog. And then there's like 20 blocks. Because it's exciting when a new fella comes in because they know it's changed them and they know this dude walking through the gate now that's completely damaged, he's going to get into shock of his life.

That Wednesday night, there's a meeting around the fire. I was just like, wow, because honestly, how many are now and just led to tell them the story. How I'm doing it around the fire, it's like, that's my story.

This guy has been here for 10 weeks. He's clean and sober. He just gave me the solution to what's been bugging my mind about whatever it may be. I walked out and my spirit came back. I'm just like, this is the place to be. Then a week later, I'm out there dancing in front of 7000 people, Sydney FC and at Central Coast Day. Painting it up, shaking a leg.

I remember the phone call to my mom to go tell her to meet, maybe at least we could invite the family. I'm going to the event and she's, what happened, what happened? I said, listen. She goes, will you come? Yeah, yeah. Of course, mom being mom. I said, look. She gets how. She could hear my voice. I'm having the best time. I never ever thought I'm going to have a great time at rehab. Then I invited her out and painted it up.

That was really important for me too to get back into Aboriginal culture, my heritage like make my nan proud and my dad. Just paint up, open, and then dance in front of 7000 people. You think I'd be a bit nervous. But as soon as that paint comes on, this is game day.

Brendan: What was it about that experience that made it so good for you?

Ethan: The dance. Back to my heritage, it's who I am. It's my identity. I wasn't born to be an alcoholic. That's not me. Alcohol, that's the bad spirit. This is the good spirit. Drinking spirits, painting up Mother Earth, and dancing not for others, dancing for me, to my family, my mom.

It was the first moment I've done that too where I had chances to do it younger and all that. But growing up around that way, the culture is the drinking. That's the way I went and then the drinking culture.

It's like when I finish a good run today, when I do a lot of running, I feel like endorphins are pumping, but the dancing is mental, physical, spiritual, all three in one. Then to do it in front of 7000 people for one of the first times ever was special. I won't forget that ever.

Brendan: Where does that identity get lost? Again, there are drug and alcohol problems in society across the board. In Australia, there is an, unfortunately, bigger problem in the Aboriginal community. Where does that identity get lost? What are we not doing there that is creating this environment that is not helping the Aboriginal community moving forward?

Ethan: For me, the alcohol, as soon as it touched my lips, it's not me. I knew it wasn't me, but the damage it can do, it was only introduced into Aboriginal culture. It's not even that long ago. Where it's all new and lowest life expectancy in the world, indigenous culture, so goes other stuff like certain foods. It just wasn't a part of it. When you put something into your body that's not meant to be there, your body's going to react in a different way. Preventable measures, I suppose. Prevention is better than the cure as well.

The youth, which is trying to get into someone where I was when I had that road where I could choose, the indigenous youth has sort of been given more opportunity in areas where alcohol wasn't an option, which is hard because there are [...] every two kilometers.

It's acceptable more than anything else. But at the end of the day, it's the cause of a lot of deaths and health issues. I suppose the best thing I can do for myself is to lead by example, where I could take care and just hopefully spark someone's mind to not make those decisions, especially in the indigenous space as well. There's a whole opportunity or great life out there. Alcohol doesn't need to rule it.

Brendan: The Glen rehabilitation program, that first 12 weeks, what was it there that gave you the confidence, the sense of identity, and the self-belief that you are building this foundation? Again, this is where personal responsibility comes in, isn't it? You're there, you're building foundations, there are some things happening. What was it that started to create that for you and to kick in?

Ethan: I think because you got a structured routine. You're waking up and you're making your bed. I couldn't remember the last time I made my bed before that. Just being straight honest. I actually didn't even know how to do the washing machine.

Brendan: It seems that your mom's too good to you, mate.

Ethan: Yeah. This is a funny story I always tell everyone. My roommate at the time, Steve, God love him. He was great because he was really talkative. He can talk, talk, talk. I was ready to get in there. I'm observant and I was a sponge. I was absorbing all this good stuff where I fed myself with all these—

Brendan: You've found knowledge.

Ethan: Yeah, knowledge. I was ready to hear and I'm really observant. I was like, man, can you show me how to use this washing machine? You press two buttons, you'll put it in, and then press the button. I was like, is that it? Sorry, mom. I was like, put it in? Oh, wow, that's it. Those little small things that I did. Small things like structured routine, eating, training, physical, mental, spiritual, telling people about how I'm feeling for the day, I just build on that every day.

I actually did go to rehab to learn how to drink properly. I thought I was going to go and then have a couple. But for me, it's never a couple. And why would I want a couple? Why would I want to drink too anyway if it doesn't go well for me?

I want to socialize, but I learned how to socialize without having to do it. It's hard. It is hard, but it's what I have to do if I want my life to go the way I want it to go. Building on those, learning those things like that, and absorbing all the knowledge from the counselors, watching how they do things, watching Shane, watching Alex and Joe, watching everyone.

I hung around people, back in the day, that I was around. I wasn't the best influence myself either, but I was doing that. I thought, if I can put all that energy and stuff into what they're doing, I'll become like them and I'll be able to get the opportunities like them.

The 12 weeks I was there, I went to transition. I also told David, and he goes, oh, at the rehab for 12 weeks, you can also have an opportunity to live on site. Oh, I'm not living here. I'm getting 12 weeks, I'm coming back home. I had no idea what I was in for and it was good.

I'm staying there for seven months at the Glen and building more foundations. The transition program is where you do 12 weeks and you stay longer. You stay longer to go to work and get tickets. I went up to the butchers up the road. I got a start there. My second day in transition, I put myself. I said, I'm going to work, and then I started that Friday. I think I went up on Tuesday, Wednesday, and then I started Friday. I had no idea it was the meat that got delivered to the Glen.

I was like, oh, so then there must have [...] jealous and I'm going to start just because I'm linked in with the Glen. They gave me a go and I'm forever grateful for them at Murphy's at Chittaway. I started working there. When I was working as a butcher, because I used to do butchering back in the day, I realized, that's not me. I said, I need to be helping people. I felt like I was put here to help others. I quit that job and I said, look, I had no idea where I was going to go next, but I always wanted to work at the Glen.

I planted the seed in Joe's and everyone else. I said, look, if you need someone to work here, I'm keen, and then I've got two days a week of stuff they tried me out. A few weeks later, four days a week, and within a month I was full time. But I had to move out4 because I was working at the rehab while I was living there. I'm getting a bit of work within there. Then I got my first ever place of my own. I bought my own car. All these things, I should have done many years ago.

Come February 2019 was when I was full time at the Glen. It happens so fast because I thought I'd go out for a few years and come back and work. I was there within eight months working there, taking the guys on outings, doing events, and one-on-one yarns with them.

I know how the program works. I observed all the workers before. I'm like, well, I'll take a bit of you, a bit of him, a bit of him, a bit of her, how they approach people, and how they deal with things. Always, if I don't know how to do things, I find the right person to do it as well. As soon as I picked up on it and then progressed.

Brendan: What do you think Joe saw in you when you got that opportunity at the Glen? Because it's not an opportunity that comes to everybody.

Ethan: I took some people on a tour of the Glen. He didn't know much of me. He probably heard a bit about me, but didn't know much of me. He always says that he went on tour and I did most of the speaking. He said, I knew more about Glen than he did. He's really impressed, he was blown away. Who is this guy who knows? Because I learned about the Glen, the culture, and why it's there, it means something.

I took people on tour. I had no idea he was even watching at that time, but I was just so proud of what the Glen did. I'd share about how it started. I'd share about what the [...] means. I'd share a bit about my story in between and make a few people laugh, make them feel welcome at home. He said, no, and then I planted a few seeds.

I think my first job at the Glen was to make about 100 sets of clapsticks. I'm not really good with woodwork, but I made it happen. I did it because I was just happy to be there and happy to be working for them. A hundred set of clapsticks and then it got to taking the guys to touch footy or taking them to the beach, not bad.

Playing on the beach on outings, going to sports games, but that's what works. It's fun given eight hours of therapy and just documenting it. It's bringing these fellas back to life again. Now with women opening up, I'm doing the same for them.

Brendan: Absolutely exciting times.

Ethan: Yeah, very exciting.

Brendan: I guess it's similar to what you're saying. There's another life outside of maybe what you've always known and putting people in that sort of situation to go to the beach sober, to be involved in some cricket or whatever. Some of these guys and maybe girls have never had that opportunity, I'm guessing.

Ethan: A hundred percent. The routine covers it. You got music, art, and sport. With the Glen it's really flexible, if someone came up to me and said, I want to start doing poetry, us as workers, we'll get him poetry lessons. We'll do it. That's what you want to do?

Musicians come in there and they always think, how am I going to play without drinking? We've had some musicians come in and then we do a talent show, which I've always dodged. We're running around and sober for three hours or singing, so I've dodged that. They're going to laugh at that.

There's a singer, a great musician man. He performed for the first time sober in front of everyone for a while. Giving people a community, volunteer work, cleaning up the waterways, graffiti removal, and helping our neighbors out. Just doing those things that give us a sense of worth. I've helped someone today and that's what I always try and strive to help others. Bringing them back to life, that's what it is.

Some guys grew up on the beach, salt water, and they haven't been to a beach because they're too ashamed because culturally for them, it's where they should be. Then they get clean and sober and then they go on a little beach trip that everyone thinks is five minutes from the beach. What of it? But to him, it means a lot because that's what he used to do and then he's connecting back with himself.

Brendan: During your time at the Glen and even from being an employee of the Glen, from the client and the employee perspective, what has been the most significant challenge that you've come across personally?

Ethan: The biggest challenge would be going from client to staff member. The biggest challenge was because when I went through that, there are still people that went in the program that were as a client, and now I'm a worker. Now I have to tell them certain things to do. That was a big challenge, but I think I was just buzzing so much that my life was going so well.

The biggest change I could say was just doing that, going from client to staff member real quick, to my life happening. Like I said, I grew up pretty fast for what I did. My life was always going full steam ahead always. I think I did that. A few months later, that got easier.

Brendan: I guess in an organizational world, it's almost like being the team member then going to be the supervisor. What worked for you as far as managing that transition?

Ethan: Speaking to people like Shane and all that. It's like, how do I deal with this? Also delegating certain things because over the next three months, clients will start leaving. Within the next three months, there will be a whole bunch of new guys there.

They don't know that I was a client three or four months ago. But I always told myself, me being me, those clients that were there when I was there and I was working they are still my mates and my brothers. If something gets too difficult, I always ask Shane or someone how to deal with this. Just ask for help in how to deal with it all.

Usually, the Glen's honest and things get sorted straight away like that. It's not an issue for too long, but it was pretty easy because they're all happy for me too to come through. They're all happy and buzzing that I was working there. But that didn't give me a role, the Glen, to be in a position where it could happen either.

The work environment and work culture at the Glen with the people there, like I said, it's a family. We argue. Everyone doesn't get along and gets along. One minute we will argue and the next minute, we're going to deal with them outside of work. There's a really strong family atmosphere there. I suppose it's just honest conversations. It squishes straightaway.

Brendan: How about, again, your own journey of being a client at the Glen and then becoming an employee? How do you think of having that client experience? What have you remembered through your experience and then sort of coming in, how does that help you be a better support person for the guys in the program today?

Ethan: There's one word that I think everyone needs if you're working in that field. It's empathy and you need to care how others feel. I know how they feel in certain situations because I've done the program. I've been through certain things they've gone through. Not always, but I understand how they feel or what time.

They've been here for a few weeks, they're getting like this. I'm always thinking because sometimes their behaviors are not so good, but it's never like someone's left a bit of spilled milk on the table. What else is going on? Because you can walk past that when you go and well. Oh, well, it's only milk. But when you have a really crappy day and someone spills milk, who did that, who didn't listen?

Empathy, knowing how others feel, and then sorting that out with them. I think that's one of the strengths I've got when I started working there and understanding a bit the clients. I know where they're at most of the time. I can sort of see it in their faces. Empathy, I think it's a big thing just in general. I think everyone should care how others feel a lot. That's one of my main things. I've always figured how others feel. I'm always cautious of that.

Brendan: You finished with the Glen only last week, last Friday?

Ethan: Yes.

Brendan: Are there any regrets for you? I don't mean about leaving the Glen. You haven't had time to regret. You haven't started your new role yet, which we'll go into. But just in your experience there, what's a situation that you wish you could have impacted, changed, or whatever?

Ethan: Something that I might miss or?

Brendan: More whether it's been maybe a situation where you felt that you wish you could have done X to maybe change the outcome that might have been in your own journey. It might have actually been in a client's journey as well. I think in hindsight, I could have done this to really help and it might have made a difference. What sort of regret for you if any?

Ethan: I think what comes to my mind when you say that is just the guys I've been working with for the last, I suppose, two, three, or four months because you come attached and you help them from day one.

Brendan: These are the clients in the program?

Ethan: Clients in the program, yeah. Some of them have been there for a few weeks, some of them have been there for six to eight months. I know very well every single one of the clients. It's thinking like, oh, I hope this guy does this and then I'll leave, but it's going to be hard to leave there.

It's a very hard place to leave, especially when I went from where I was at, like I said earlier, to where I was. All the opportunities that Glen gave me, to leave that is probably the hardest thing not to continue working with the guys and helping them still kicking off some goals that they've got coming up.

I trust the Glen and the workers that are there now. I told all the guys, if you need me, I'm still here. If I don't answer, I don't want to be on the phone today. Simple as that, so nothing personal. Text me, I'll call you when I'm ready.

The hardest thing, I suppose, what I wish I could regret is probably be like, oh, I wonder how he's gone. But I know they'll be fine. I know they'll be good. I watch from afar, from the Facebook page of the Glen. They'll text me.

I'll get some random messages from guys three years ago because I'd let them all know that I'm leaving the Glen. Then all the comments, refresh my memory of what I had done for them and what they've done for me because it's how it works. Help them and see them thrive. Empathy, I know how they'll feel when those little goals get ticked, when they work the washing machine. When they press that button, I know that feeling.

Brendan: They're little goals, but they're big goals in that journey and the perspective that you can offer. You know how big those things are in life.

Ethan: Yeah. Do the little things right and then big things come a lot easier. They got to be done as little things. Sometimes we don't know what we don't know. I always tell people that and I always tell people the washing machine thing because if I didn't know how to do it, I don't know.

When people are embarrassed about how they don't know how to read, write, or they don't know how to do this, like I can't even swim, I can run in place for them. I'm not a good singer [...].

Brendan: Is this why you don't take us up on the offer to swim down in [...]?

Ethan: A hundred percent. That's exactly why. Ziggy tried to drag me down.

Brendan: They just try to get you down there.

Ethan: They try to drag me down. I think for Christmas and my birthday last year, I got some floaties. Everyone brought their floaties.

Brendan: You always count on your mates.

Ethan: Yeah, of course. That's the first thing I love. I love a little big, a little sly, a little giggle at everyone. Where I grew up, we got our thick skin. We got our thick skin out there because otherwise, you'll just break. You only know what you know. Hopefully, I came rolling out and swimming.

Brendan: You're going further inland, mate. You know that, don't you?

Ethan: Yeah. See what I'm doing?

Brendan: Let's go into that because you're moving to a role with the Indigenous Marathon Foundation. As we said in the intro, you're working with Rob de Castella. A fantastic opportunity, well done. How did running become part of your journey? How has that helped you in your journey?

Ethan: It all comes from the Glen as well. That's the reason why I found out about the Indigenous Marathon project, through a fellow named Chris, who I work with. He's really enthusiastic. He goes, mate, mate, do you want to go to New York? And I was just like, what about? And he goes, mate, indigenous marathon.

He goes, how old are you? I said, I'm 27. He's like, I'm looking into it, wow, what an opportunity. To be honest, I hated running. I love running around with sport, but I never grasp the thought of people just running, you can't score, you can't keep because I was like a sprinter.

Then I was like, but you know what, it's not about the marathon. Marathon is cool. I said, it's the opportunity to get my story out there even more about where I've come from. I never ran more than 10K or something like that. If I can train for that in five months and get it done and I'll show to these guys at the Glen, clients that I was where they were, I can do this, I can do that, it sends a message of hope.

Not that they had to run a marathon, but anything. I've come from wanting to kill myself to running my first marathon. Chris gave me the idea. I'd tried out for it, I applied. I just got a very honest story. We did a five-kilometer trial run up in Newcastle and it was like 38 degrees. The night before, I was eating Cheetos.

Brendan: Now we're talking about preparation.

Ethan: No. I knew very well playing sports, but I was just like, I don't know why. I didn't even bring any water. I drove to Newcastle and then Adrian, the coaches, I'm looking at them like, yeah. I'm like, I can do 5K. It's 12 laps of cricket over there. I ran around and Cheetos started coming up a bit. I was like, hold it down, hold it down. But I didn't stop.

I went in the hallway, I didn't stop. I was this pale white because I was just ready to vomit. I didn't. Then I told him my story and then told him the Glen. He was going from Newcastle to Sydney for the next trials. I thought this guy had to go past the Glen. I'll show him the Glen. Then I showed him and took him on a tour like I did like Joe said on that tour.

I'm like, you're at the Glen, you've been around the Glen, and I took him on a tour. I told him my story and I said this is me, blah, blah. Then a few weeks later, I got a call out and you ran the marathon. I was supposed to be in New York, but COVID. But what was even better, we got to run our first marathon in Alice Springs under a full moon midnight marathon on Halloween.

Brendan: Wow, some experience.

Ethan: Crazy experience. Chris gave me the idea and then I'm like, great opportunity. I can do that and make my family proud. They're saying someone how he was, now he's in the middle of the country just running a marathon, also throwing his guts up in the middle of the show under a full moon.

Brendan: Fertilizing.

Ethan: Fertilizing, yeah. Just fertilizing the ground there because it's a bit dry there, so I'm giving them the liquid. It was dry. It was a crazy experience, crazy in a good way, beautiful. What's got into me, it came upon the stars two days prior. It's always these opportunities that come.

This is introducing from giving up to grow, giving up all that stuff. Opportunities come. I surround myself with the right people. Opportunities come away and I grab them. I'm confident. My confidence and my trust in people that this is the way to go.

Brendan: Now this next chapter of your journey, you said, going to the Indigenous Marathon Foundation and leading over there. You also mentioned before how you didn't really enjoy running for the sake of running. I'm with you mate. I've never been a huge fan, but for some reason, we're more into running now. How has that come about? What has that process been to not liking that, but then now it's part of your DNA?

Ethan: Now I'm doing ultra marathons.

Brendan: You're in [...]?

Ethan: Yeah, I know.

Brendan: Because there's something about the Glen. Everyone that comes in, they just come out and others they want to run 10 marathons in 10 days and all sorts of stuff.

Ethan: Yeah, I think he's doing that next week.

Brendan: What is it that plants that seed decision, like, this is now just part of me?

Ethan: When I first started running, we got our first training schedule. I think it was run 3K or 4K on Wednesday. It's just easy. But I'm not run easily. I'm going to sprint this 4K. I said, I might burn out at 700 meters. And I was just like, this is going to be hard. What have I signed up for? I want to do this, prove myself something, and help others.

I really want to prove my nana. I say starting and not finishing things back when I was young. I always started like a boxing lesson and I won't get back a week after, Muay Thai, and all that. I do all these things, but I've just always started and never finished. The conversation I had with myself, I said, no, now, we'll get into this and find out why I burn out.

I called the coach, someone that has been there and knows more than me. I just want to pace myself. It's all [...]. I'm not racing anyone, just run and enjoy. I had headphones in and they broke. It's the best thing that ever happened because now I'm great without music. They broke up fairly soon because I just bought a Kmart pair. I think it's $15 and they broke. I was like, okay, I could run without it because I'm going to get this training.

I'm pacing myself. I'm like, this is actually pretty good. I can breathe. It's just all rhythmic and it is something like these little analogies. Now you stuck out. When you're running, it's like a bucket of water and you slowly just tip in from it. Just flow and tip in from it. If you tip out straight away at the start, you've got nothing left.

Pull the rest out when you are near the end. When you got nothing left, keep putting it, and smashing it back in. I fell in love with it because I learned how to do it properly, not just enough. Then the endorphins and the people you meet, the places you go, an awful lot of running. You wouldn't be spending much money because you're just running. Shoes, gels, all these magnesium, and all the stuff you spend the money on. The people you meet, you run, you sweat together.

Brendan: You should have had some sponsorships around the table, mate.

Ethan: Yeah. I've got no sponsor, anyone wants to sponsor me.

Brendan: We'll sort it out.

Ethan: Cool. Just the people that you meet and run with, running groups, that sense of belonging again. I've got my running team, I've got my recovery friends, I've got my family, I've got the Glen, and the IMF.

Brendan: It's really building this community around you.

Ethan: Yeah, and just with positive people. I still have my friends that I grew up with. I've got some of them help and now they're doing good as well. All my friends, they know they can reach out to me whenever they want when they need me. I love them all.

I just can't be around that area for a bit. I'm going to do my thing, representing Western Sydney around the world and country through running and being me. I'm showing people that people from out that way can change your life and make something for themselves.

Brendan: What are you looking forward to most with the new opportunity with the IMF?

Ethan: What I'm looking forward to is learning how they just operate. They're on a national scale, so they're around the country. Why are they doing it? I know why they're doing it. How do they just make it happen? Got the ins and outs, so I'll just do what I do with the Glen. Observe everyone and see what they do. Learn and give my best.

I'll give my best and just hopefully help others train for their marathon now like I do with the Glen. I help them with their recovery. Now I learn anything I can just to give back. I'm someone if I get knowledge, I just can't wait to share it or teach others.

What I'm looking forward to most is learning how they do it because I'm coming from drug and alcohol space to a completely different space altogether. That's what I'm looking forward to, learning something new.

Brendan: How do you hope to inspire others who have experienced a journey like yours? Maybe not Western Sydney, in other parts, but what does that look like for you? How do you hope to inspire others who are on a path, which has got some dark roads on it, to see the light so to speak?

Ethan: I think just with my actions and how I carry myself. I don't go telling people how to do things if I'm not doing that at that time. I think just sharing my story and telling people that there's help out there and just by my actions.

This is what I've done. This is how I'm doing it. This is how I carry myself. I help others. It can be done no matter how because there's a part there when it's dark you think nothing can save you. You think that's it. It's too much work or it's that, but all you need to do is work. It's just a day-by-day thing.

I always thought I'd stop drinking forever and then someone said, don't think of it, you're going to give yourself anxiety. Don't worry about what's going to happen. Just don't drink today. Keep it in the day. Do what you got to do today and everything will fall into place.

That comes with anxiety. It comes with, what about this day? What about that? Nothing ever ends up how you think it's going to be, nothing. Worrying about the drive down mom and dad's now, that road trip is not going to think how it's going to be.

Brendan: Enjoy the journey.

Ethan: Enjoy the journey, yeah. Be in the moment. I say depression back in the past, anxiety in the future. But when you're in the moment, like I said, I forget what day it is. When I forget what day it is, I'm going really well because I'm not really focused on the next or what happened yesterday.

Brendan: Mate, you've got in shorts and a t-shirt today, you got a few tats on you. I'm interested to know and our listeners will be very interested to know, what's one that you want to tell us a bit of a story about?

Ethan: It had to be this rabbit.

Brendan: You just had to pick it, didn't you?

Ethan: I know. You're staring at it, aren't you?

Brendan: You might just need to stand up so we can see it properly. Nice. You're not flexing your quad there, aren't you?

Ethan: No, I don't know that much. I'm just skin and bone.

Brendan: Tell us about the rabbit. Why is that one so important for you?

Ethan: It's my journey. I got a little half. Half [...] isn't that really common to get them all. Just fixed up and out of there. It's my journey. It's a rabbit. I'm a Rabbitoh. Carly [...], she volunteered at the Glen around the time I started.

She's a [...] woman who helped me do my first bit of Aboriginal art. I never got into it because I just didn't know how or just wasn't really interested in it. I did it in a painting or something for mom and dad the first time ever.

She knew my journey. She's seen me from day one. She saw me go through the Glen and transition day by day. She knows we've been here since [...] together. Now she's the COO of the Women's Centre. I hope I got that right.

She's gone here. I met her. We've gone from just starting there together. Anyway, she's a great artist. I wish I should have brought in this cricket bat that I have. She painted it for me in [...]. It tells my journey.

Brendan: When you get to your parents' place, mate, take a photo if you can and send it to us.

Ethan: Yeah, sure. I think I put it in the storage.

Brendan: I'll remind you.

Ethan: I'll go back there in the storage before I go home. I know where it is. It is in the storage. It tells my journey. In the middle, there's the water, the Darkinjung Country. The people around me and who support me. The dots, the new beginnings, on the neck of the rabbit. It just represents my story.

I didn't even have to tell her what I wanted. She just knew and then she's done it. She painted it up. I got a tat on me. That means a lot to me, that rabbit. That's my story and rabbit, of course, the mighty bunnies who are struggling a bit, but we'll get there.

Brendan: It's a great story, mate. I didn't know that. I've met Carly, she's a wonderful person as well. Yeah, fantastic.

Ethan: Yeah, and all the other tattoos. This is the guy's arm, my dad's name, a little [...] bone, and then the girls. My two sisters, my mom, and their star signs. Obviously, I'm a real [...] fan.

Brendan: Family means a lot.

Ethan: Yeah, of course. They're amazing. A little half of finished tattoos.

Brendan: Neither here nor there.

Ethan: Good at the time.

Brendan: A different moment of your life.

Ethan: Exactly, right. Exactly.

Brendan: Mate, let's start to wrap this up. What's had the greatest impact on your leadership journey?

Ethan: I suppose the greatest impact is knowing that I'm a leader whether I like it or not, that my actions speak a lot louder than what I say or do, and how I carry myself. It just makes me feel good that people do look up to me because I'm always wanting to give back.

Back before, when I used to think leader, the word leader was like, do this, do that. But I know it's more like, let me show you how to do this, let me show you how to do that. People that taught me everything, I'm a product of all of them. I've taken bits of every one of all the leaders I've looked up to.

I hope that my actions and what I do in the future will show that and then people will sort of take a bit from me and put it into their life. There might be something they don't like, that's cool. Leave that. Take what you believe. I said that's right or what I'm doing is right.

Brendan: Well said, mate. I just want to say, I've known you for maybe a bit more than 12 months. I'm really honored to have you on the show, absolutely. I've wanted to tell or to unpack your story because a lot of what you shared today, I didn't know, but I knew that there was a story with doing what you're doing and where you're going. It's such an exciting future.

You still have a lot of years ahead of you. You're only 29 as we said at the top of the show. Mate, I'm really impressed with what you're doing now and what you've done through the Glen. I'm sure you've spent a lot of time with Joe and Alex over the time. They're very impressed with this man, this person you've become and are going to continue to become into the future.

All well for the IMF. I'm sure you'll do a fantastic job and succeed there. The other thing I have to say, which is I love getting to know people like yourself that have come through these journeys that are maybe different to a lot of others. They're your normal to some extent, but there's an extreme level of vulnerability that comes out in order to heal and get through things, particularly, some of the stuff you shared with us today.

You need to have that extreme level of vulnerability. That underpins leadership in my book. You're a true leader, mate. Thanks for being a guest on The Culture of Things podcast.

Ethan: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Brendan: Are you living a life your parents would be proud of? Ethan wasn't but he sure is now. His parents, brothers, and sisters are super proud of the man he's become, especially overcoming the challenges a drug and alcohol addiction can bring. 

We have all overcome challenges, but overcoming a situation you put yourself into like addiction and working your way through to the other side, well, that takes enormous resilience, courage, and support. Ethan had the unwavering support of his family. They believed in him. That belief was strong enough to help get Ethan to believe in himself and design his new life from addiction to sobriety. 

Do you have the strength to believe in yourself and design the life you want? These are my three key takeaways from my conversation with Ethan. My first key takeaway: Leaders find their true self. Ethan lost himself for about 10 years, from a young teenager to his mid-20s. He was a person he didn't want to be with drugs and alcohol leading him week to week. As he said, he was disconnected from himself. Eventually, he rediscovered his true self and is now living that out. As a true leader. He has worked hard to find his true self. 

My second key takeaway: Leaders ask for help. Asking for help isn't a weakness. It's a sign of strength. When did you last ask for help? It could be something small or it could be a significant life choice like Ethan had. Do you remember what you were doing on Monday 8th of January 2018? Ethan does. He was starting his leadership journey by asking for help.

My third key takeaway: Leaders elevate others. Ethan's been helping to elevate others over the last four years at the Glen. In his words, it's about bringing people back to life, elevating them from addiction to sobriety so they too can experience their family being proud of them. Ethan's walked the path and has used his experience to empathize, support, and lift others out of addiction. True leaders elevate others to achieve their potential. 

So in summary, my three key takeaways were: Leaders find their true self, leaders ask for help, and leaders elevate others. If you want to talk culture, leadership, or teamwork, or have any questions or feedback about the episode, you can leave me a comment on the socials or you can leave me a voice message at thecultureofthings.com. Thanks for joining me, and remember, the best outcome is on the other side of a genuine conversation.

If you want to talk culture, leadership, or teamwork, or have any questions or feedback about the episode, leave me a comment on the socials or you can leave me a voice message at thecultureofthings.com. Thanks for joining me. Remember, the best outcome is on the other side of a genuine conversation.

 

Outtro (music): Thank you for listening to The Culture of Things podcast with Brendan Rogers. Please visit thecultureofleadership.com to access the show notes. If you love The Culture of Things podcast, please subscribe, rate and give a review on Apple podcasts and remember a healthy culture is your competitive advantage.